Jedi Guardian tank build - Tempest

Wedge · Post edited by Wedge at 2011-12-19 11:01:13

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500frGcu0rokRZhGM.1

thoughts?

I haven't had much issue generating combat focus so far, so i left out a couple of those skills for some of the Vigilance options.

Wedge · Post edited by Wedge at 2012-01-03 14:12:31

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=1780

good tanking info. I'm going to respec and try the hybrid tanking build. It's pretty convincing to go away from straight Defense.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500rMG0uMzZhGrMMhzzM.1

Splee

Nice, I am deep in the Vigilance tree for DPS while levelling and was thinking that a bunch of these talents would be useful while tanking. This confirms a few of my suspicions and gives some great advice on tanking as a Guardian at the end.

I will most likely be using a similar build when I go back to "full retard" mode @ 50.

Splee · Post edited by Splee at 2012-01-03 16:52:00

FYI, I just ran through the spec builder on torhead and ended up with the exact same spec as you posted, Wedge.

The more I go through this spec, the more I think it would be equally good for levelling. I went raw vigilance tree, but that gives me a little less survivability. Seems like this build would give me a good balance between damage and mitigation, so I might switch tonight - it'll help me get my gear in order for tanking anyway during these last 5 levels.

Splee

So, I'm starting to see holes in this spec, mainly in terms of force generation. I get oodles of focus when there are >1 mob hitting me, but where you have fewer mobs which are being actively tanked due to CC I'm having to blow Combat Focus way more often than I'd like.

Is CF in your normal rotation? I mentally have it marked as a sort-of OSB but maybe that's the source of my focus generation woes.

In lieu of me Doing It Wrong (tm) I have done a little digging around the talent tree and am starting to think that the post you linked might not be right about Guardian Slash being less useful than Overhead Slash, especially when coupled with the Tier 1 Vigilance talent Improved Sundering Strike.

Without 5 stacks of sunder on a mob, GS does ~100 less damage but it applies three stacks itself. Over 5 stacks, and GS does 2300-2600 damage vs OS's 1900-2100. So, my rotation would be something like:

Force Leap > Force Sweep > Sunder (can't remember the real name offhand, but adds 2 sunder armor) > Guardian Slash (3 sunder armor) > etc...

This way, my next guardian slash hits for the full damage given a full stack of 5 sunders, plus DPS in the group get the benefit of the sunders a lot quicker. Since damage = threat, surely GS will keep aggro better than OS?

My tentative build given the above, with additional focus generation built in also: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500fMGfurrkzoZhG.1

Am I barking up the wrong tree here?

Wedge

that's basically what i had earlier. i'm unsure which is better. Focus hasn't been too much of an issue for me. I like the options for more shield chance and hilt strike. While leveling, i was underwhelmed by guardian slash. but that was leveling. We will have to try both.

Wedge

i put this together:
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500frGcu0ro0MZIG00M.1

I like it because it has all the damage reduction abilities as well as both shields. I like unremitting, because it gives a quick 20% damage reduction on pull, and any other time i can use force leap.

Splee

I was sad to sacrifice unremitting too.

As for the build, it seems that the points in single saber mastery for a tank is a waste of points as you only get the benefit from forms other than Soresu, which should be never. Were they just to dump points to gain unremitting?

Wedge · Post edited by Wedge at 2012-01-11 08:01:50

true... i'll try another shortly.

how about something like this: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500frGcuzro0MZhGM0M.1

Wedge · Post edited by Wedge at 2012-01-11 10:57:31

in the end for me it's a matter if you want Guardian Slash, or Unremitting. Overhead slash was one of the better threat generators in the old build. It gets lost in the more defensive builds we are playing with. The more i think about it, the need for guardian slash may be a matter of threat generation. As we get to high end bosses with high end DPSers attacking it, what will be used to hold threat?

Riposte and guardian slash are damage skills used to put shields on you.

Sundering strike is to generate focus and debuff, then set up for Guardian slash.

Leaving your major threat generating abilities as force sweep and hilt strike(60 sec cooldown). If you add guardian slash, that's a ton of damage that can go into your rotation in between hilt strike cool downs.

So i may have turned around on this. Though we will have to see how it goes in raid.

updated: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500frGcuMro0RZhGM.1

Wedge

I found this today:
http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Immortal-Defense-Compendium-A-Tank-s-Guide-To-The-Galaxy

it's theorycraft, though with no real combat log, i'm not sure how factual it is.

Splee

Ok, Guardian Slash really does suck. The cooldown is *way* too long for it to be effective. I will be respecing back to the Overhead Slash build.

Wedge

Splee, can you link for me the Dev discussion on threat? I haven't been able to find it.

Splee

http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-qa-feb-17th-2012

The pertinent part:

Fu-bear: Can you please confirm the exact mechanics behind Taunts? The tooltips purely state that it forces a mob to attack for X seconds, yet I've read reports that the skill appears to equalise threat like a traditional taunt. Can you clarify this?

Georg Zoeller: Taunts work in two ways. First, they instantly put you on top of the target’s threat list. Then, they place a short duration effect on the taunted target forcing them to attack you. Assuming that you then lose threat (say, you just stand there) the NPC will be forced to attack you for the duration of the Taunt. Afterwards, the AI will resume attacking targets based on threat order. If another Taunt is applied after yours, the most recently applied Taunt takes precedence.

Please note this is assuming regular threat rules – there are certain situations in the game, especially unique boss fights, which may cause NPCs to specifically ignore targets. In these cases, an ignored target will not be able to gain threat even with a taunt. In general, these situations are messaged to the player through effects on their buff bar – something we’re looking to make more visible in the future.

Wedge

Ah i did see that. I thought it was more in depth about which skills generate threat.

Splee

I was under the impression that a taunt in this game does not materially affect your threat, it just forces a mob to attack you for 6 seconds and you have to build the threat yourself.

This caused me to use taunts as a threat OSB more than being part of my regular rotation. After a few pulls you can normally tell who is going to pull aggro at a roughly regular interval and would rotate my taunts based on that. From here on out they will mostly be on cooldown, especially the AoE taunt.

Wedge

I use it early as part of rotation, usually using the AOE taunt first, then the regular while the aoe is on cooldown. After the first 30 seconds, i don't use it too much, unless i definitely have both available. What i found on Xrr-3 Hard mode was that our DPS was just on the edge of threat generation. This is where we should be. So i do agree, it's an OSB or an encounter driven thing, but it can be useful early in rotation.

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